Śrīla Prabhupāda and distance to the moon (Brijabasi das, version 1.0) A note about this paper: Although I discuss in this paper several concepts of the Purāṇic astronomy, I will try to analyze only why Śrīla Prabhupāda always stressed that the moon is further away from the earth than the sun and will not try to reconcile the astronomy of the Bhāgavatam (or Purāṇic astronomy) with the Siddhāntic astronomy or the modern astronomy in this paper. All emphasis is mine. Table of Contents The moon and its 28 nakṣatras: an enigmatic hint..........................................................................1 A helpful similarity: the nine varṣas and the mountain ranges.....................................................2 Another parallel: eclipses caused by Rāhu or by shadow?.............................................................3 Sūrya-siddhānta as an important but undiscovered evidence.......................................................7 Weekdays and planets......................................................................................................................11 Conclusion..........................................................................................................................................13 Appendix.............................................................................................................................................15 A question of siddhānta................................................................................................................15 The moon and its 28 nakṣatras: an enigmatic hint The structure of the universe is described in the Fifth Canto of the Bhāgavatam along with the distances between different planets. The apparent discrepancy described in the following two verses (5.22.9 and 5.22.11) gives a hint that the structure and especially the distances described there may not be taken literally (at least in our gross material reality) and may present a picture given from another point of view or even from a more subtle level of material reality: …caikam ekaṁ nakṣatraṁ triṁśatā muhūrtair bhuṅkte Synonyms: … ca—also; ekam ekam—one after another; nakṣatram—a constellation of stars; triṁśatā—by thirty; muhūrtaiḥ—muhūrtas; bhuṅkte—passes through. Translation: “The moon passes through each constellation of stars in thirty muhūrtas.” (ŚrīmadBhāgavatam 5.22.9) tata upariṣṭād dvi-lakṣa-yojanato nakṣatrāṇi meruṁ dakṣiṇenaiva kālāyana īśvara-yojitāni sahābhijitāṣṭā-viṁśatiḥ. Synonyms: tataḥ—from that region of the moon; upariṣṭāt—above; dvi-lakṣa-yojanataḥ—200,000 yojanas; nakṣatrāṇi—many stars; merum—Sumeru Mountain; dakṣiṇena eva—to the right side; kāla-ayane —in the wheel of time; īśvara-yojitāni—attached by the Supreme Personality of Godhead; saha—with; abhijitā—the star known as Abhijit; aṣṭā-viṁśatiḥ—twenty-eight. Translation: “There are many stars located 200,000 yojanas [1,600,000 miles] above the moon. By the supreme will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are fixed to the wheel of time, and thus they rotate with Mount Sumeru on their right, their motion being different from that of the sun. There are twenty-eight important stars, headed by Abhijit.” (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.22.11) How can the moon pass through each constellation and “enjoy” (bhuṅkte) all the 28 naksatras if there is huge distance of 200,000 yojanas (1,600,000 miles) between them? Similarly, although the distance between the earth and the moon is stated to be the same 200,000 yojanas1, there may be a similar possibility for a closer contact. It cannot be said that the moon does not actually go into each constellation and it only seems going there from the earth (in other words the moon is projected into each nakṣatra for an observer on earth) because the verse uses the active verb “bhuṅkte”, “he enjoys” each of the 28 nakṣatras, who are stated in the śāstra to be Candra’s wives2. So it is not only an observer’s subjective vision. A helpful similarity: the nine varṣas and the mountain ranges Apart from the distance between various cosmic objects the same Fifth Canto also provides the information about the different varṣas and the height of the mountains that separate them. We can compare the statements about the distance to the moon with the statements about the different varṣas of the Bhūmaṇḍala and the height of the Himalaya mountains. yasmin nava varṣāṇi nava-yojana-sahasrāyāmāny aṣṭabhir maryādā-giribhiḥ suvibhaktāni bhavanti. Synonyms: yasmin—in that Jambūdvīpa; nava—nine; varṣāṇi—divisions of land; nava-yojana-sahasra— 72,000 miles in length; āyāmāni—measuring; aṣṭabhiḥ—by eight; maryādā—indicating the boundaries; giribhiḥ—by mountains; suvibhaktāni—nicely divided from one another; bhavanti—are. Translation: “In Jambūdvīpa there are nine divisions of land, each with a length of 9,000 yojanas [72,000 miles]. There are eight mountains that mark the boundaries of these divisions and separate them nicely.” (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.16.6) Here is a list of the mountains separating different varṣas of Jambudvīpa with their height in yojanas according to the descriptions in the Fifth Canto (chapter 16): Varṣa Mountains Height (in yojanas) Ramyaka Nīla 10,000 Hiraṇmaya Śveta 9,000 Kuru Śṛṅgavān 8,000 Hari-varṣa Niṣadha 10,000 Kimpuruṣa-varṣa Hemakūṭa 10,000 Bhārata-varṣa [India] Himālaya 10,000 Ketumāla Mālyavān 2,000 Bhadrāśva Gandhamādana 2,000 1 See SB 5.22.8 and 5.23.9 purport. 2 See, for example, SB 6.6.23. Of these mountains only Himalayas are known to us at present. However, the height of the Himalayas as we know it (8,848 m) is nowhere close to the height given in the Bhāgavatam (10,000 yojanas or 130,000 km) —less than 0.007%! From such works as Śrī Madhva-vijaya we know that they are higher in the more subtle reality. Thus, when Śrī Madhva went to the higher Badarikāśrama (Uttara Badri) to meet Vyāsa, his disciple Satya Tīrtha was left behind in the earthy Himalayas (lower Badri, Badrinath) because he could not ascend the subtle part of the mountains. Whereas the lower Badri was cold and clad with snow, the higher Badri had a pleasant heavenly scenery—blooming flowers and trees, chirping birds, beautiful lakes, etc3. So, because we have a concept of Himalayas being much higher on a more subtle plane and we can only access and see the tiny 0.7 yojana part of it, this does not necessarily mean that no one can climb this part or fly over it in a plane. Similarly, because Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam describes moon as a much higher and celestial (and thus similarly a subtle) realm, does not necessarily mean that we can not access the lower visible gross part of it4. However, Śrīla Prabhupāda did not emphasize this part of the Fifth Canto, as he did with the distance to the moon, and did not repeatedly say that “you cannot fly in your airplane over Himalaya mountains because they are 10,000 yojanas (130,000 km) high.”i Moreover, the abode of Lord Brahmā is stated to be on the top of the Sumeru Mountain which is 100,000 yojanas high, of which only 84,000 yojanas are above the earth5. This would make it even lower than the sun, which is 100,000 yojanas above the earth. One way to reconcile these apparent “discrepancies” in the Bhāgavatam’s version is to find that point of vision which would put everything in the proper perspective. Another parallel: eclipses caused by Rāhu or by shadow? Similarly there is a dichotomy in the explanation of the eclipses – although Purāṇas describe that Rahu attacks the sun or the moon during an eclipse6, astronomical treatises like Sūrya-siddhānta, Āryabhaṭa’s Ārya-siddhānta (Āryabhaṭīya), Bhāskarācārya’s Siddhānta-śiromaṇi, etc. say that eclipses occur when the moon eclipses the sun (solar eclipse) or the earth’s shadow eclipses the moon (lunar eclipse). At the same time they do not discard the Puranic descriptions of Rahu as the cause of eclipses, but offer a way to reconcile these apparent contradictions. These astronomical treatises were translated and published by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura either as separate books or as serialized publications in his astronomical 3 Śrī Madhva-vijaya, chapter 6. 4 Besides that, in the Bhāgavatam (specifically in the Fifth Canto) there are several similar statements regarding the structure of our universe which are in direct conflict with our perception, modern science and common knowledge – for instance that the earth (or rather Bhū-maṇḍala) has nine different varṣas which are separated from each other by the different mountains, including Himalayas. It can not be said that the different varṣas are the continents of the earth because 1) there is no division of the four yugas in all varṣas except for Bhārata-varṣa (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 2.3.19, quoted by Viśvanātha Cakravatrī Ṭhākura in his SB 5.19.19 commentary) while we see a clear presence of Kali-yuga in all continents of the earth; 2) in each of the nine varṣas there are presiding Deities with a great devotee worshiping Them and we find such worship only in the Bhārata-varṣa and not on any other continent of the earth. Even if we assume that it was there in the remote past and has disappeared since then we still face the problem of the huge mountains separating different varṣas, of which we only know the Himalayas – where are the rest of them? Even if we say that the rest of the mountains are the other big mountains on the earth like Andes, Alps, Cordillera etc., still their height is not as big as given in the Bhāgavatam and they do not seem to separate any varṣas. So again, this must refer to some other, subtle plane inaccessible to us. 5 See SB 5.16.7 and 5.16.28. 6 See SB 5.24.2-3, for example. magazine Jyotirvid7. Here are relevant quotes from these authoritative sources: chādako bhāskarasyendur adhaḥ-stho ghanavad bhavet bhū-cchāyāṁ prāṅ-mukhaś candro viśaty asya bhaved asau Translation: “The moon being like a cloud in a lower sphere covers the sun (in a solar eclipse); but in a lunar one the moon moving eastward enters the earth's shadow and (therefore) the shadow obscures her disc.” (Sūrya-siddhānta 4.9) chādayati śaśī sūryam śaśinam mahatī ca bhūcchāyā Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s Bengali translation: sūrya-grahaṇa-kāle candra sūryake āchādana kare; candra-grahaṇe pṛthivīra subṛhat chāyā śaśīke āchanna kare English translation of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s Bengali translation: “At the time of solar eclipse the moon covers the sun. In the lunar eclipse the huge shadow of the earth covers the moon.” (Āryabhaṭīya 4.37) bhū-bhā vidhuṁ vidhur inaṁ grahaṇe pidhatte Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s Bengali translation: candra-grahaṇe bhū-cchāyā candrake evaṁ sūrya-grahaṇe candra sūryake ācchādana kare English translation of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s Bengali translation: “At the time of a lunar eclipse the shadow of the earth covers the moon and during a solar eclipse the moon covers the sun.” (Siddhānta-śiromaṇi, Graha-gaṇita-adhyāya, Candra-grahaṇa-adhikāra, verse 9). Although there is a common understanding that the demon Rahu “swallows” the sun during solar eclipse, the Bhāgavatam (5.24.3) and our ācāryas say that it cannot be taken literally: tan niśamyobhayatrāpi bhagavatā rakṣaṇāya prayuktaṁ sudarśanaṁ nāma bhāgavataṁ dayitam astraṁ tat tejasā durviṣahaṁ muhuḥ parivartamānam abhyavasthito muhūrtam udvijamānaś cakita-hṛdaya ārād eva nivartate tad uparāgam iti vadanti lokāḥ. Synonyms: tat—that situation; niśamya—hearing; ubhayatra—around both the sun and moon; api— indeed; bhagavatā—by the Supreme Personality of Godhead; rakṣaṇāya—for their protection; prayuktam —engaged; sudarśanam—the wheel of Kṛṣṇa; nāma—named; bhāgavatam—the most confidential devotee; dayitam—the most favorite; astram—weapon; tat—that; tejasā—by its effulgence; durviṣaham— unbearable heat; muhuḥ—repeatedly; parivartamānam—moving around the sun and moon; abhyavasthitaḥ—situated; muhūrtam—for a muhūrta (forty-eight minutes); udvijamānaḥ—whose mind was full of anxieties; cakita—frightened; hṛdayaḥ—the core of whose heart; ārāt—to a distant place; eva—certainly; nivartate—flees; tat—that situation; uparāgam—an eclipse; iti—thus; vadanti —they say; lokāḥ—the people. Translation (by Śrīla Prabhupāda): “After hearing from the sun and moon demigods about Rāhu's attack, 7 Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura translated Ārya-siddhānta and Siddhānta-śiromaṇi (Graha-gaṇita-adhyāya) in his monthly astrological magazine named Jyotirvid in 1902. See Jyotirvid vol.2, no.5, p.20 (Bhadra 1824 Śaka, September 1902) and vol.3, no.10, p.200 (Pausa 1826 Śaka, December 1904) for the verses quoted here. The Sūrya-siddhānta with his translation was published separately in 1896. the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, engages His disc, known as the Sudarśana cakra, to protect them. The Sudarśana cakra is the Lord's most beloved devotee and is favored by the Lord. The intense heat of its effulgence, meant for killing non-Vaiṣṇavas, is unbearable to Rāhu, and he therefore flees in fear of it. During the time Rāhu disturbs the sun or moon, there occurs what people commonly know as an eclipse.” (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.24.3). It is noteworthy that this verse does not say that Rahu literally “devours” or “swallows” the sun or the moon. An important detail here is the fact that, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.24.1, Rahu is 10,000 yojanas below the sun (which makes him 110,000 yojanas below the moon and 90,000 yojanas above the earth), so he cannot literally “attack” or “swallow” the sun or the moon (the similar situation as with the moon and nakṣatras mentioned above). Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura comments on this verse as follows: ubhayatra sūrye candro’pi, tat-prasiddhaṁ cakraṁ parivartamānaṁ paribhramat dṛṣṭveti śeṣaḥ | abhi abhimukham avasthitaḥ san | tad-avasthānam evoparāgaṁ vadati | tatra ca ṛju-vakra-sthitibhyāṁ sarvagrāsārdha-grasau, na tu vastuto grāso’sti ayuta-yojanāntaratvāt || Translation (by Bhanu Swami): “Ubhayatra means “to the sun and moon.” Seeing (verb is omitted) the cakra rotating, situated in front of it, he then fled. They say that is situation is an eclipse. Because of either precise or imprecise alignment, there are full and partial eclipses. Rāhu does not actually devour the sun or moon, since he is situated 10,000 yojanas away from the sun.” The Rāhu/shadow dichotomy can be reconciled in two ways. In the first of them, found in the Sūryasiddhānta and universally accepted in jyotiṣa, Rāhu and Ketu are identified with the north and south nodes — the points of intersection of the paths of the sun and the moon as they move on the celestial sphere. The fact that eclipses occur when the sun and the moon are near these points explains the understanding of “swallowing” of the sun and the moon by them. It is stated in the Sūrya-siddhānta: dakṣiṇottarato’py evaṁ pāto rāhuḥ svaraṃhasā vikṣipaty eṣa vikṣepaṃ candrādīnām apakramāt Translation: “In the same way, the node named Rāhu by its power deflects the planets to the north or to the south from (the end of) the declination (of its corresponding point at the ecliptic). This deflection is called vikṣepa (celestial latitude).” (Sūrya-siddhānta 2.6) Another reconciliation was offered by the ancient Indian astronomer Brahmagupta (c. 598—c. 668) in his Brāhma-sphuṭa-siddhānta (21.44) and by his follower Bhāskarācārya (1114—1185) mentioned above. Here is a quote from Bhāskara’s Siddhānta-śiromaṇi (Golādhyāya, Grahaṇa-vāsanā, verses 9-10)8: dig-deśa-kālāvaraṇādi-bhedān na cchādako rāhur iti bruvanti yan-māninaḥ kevala-gola-vidyās tat saṁhitā-veda-purāṇa-bāhyam Translation: “Those learned astronomers, who, being too exclusively devoted to the doctrine of the sphere (gola-vidyā), claim that Rāhu cannot be the cause of the obscuration of the sun and moon because of the 8 Śrīla Prabhupāda provides a quote from the Golādhyāya section of the Siddhānta-śiromaṇi in his purport to Caitanyacaritāmṛta, Antya 2.10, which is taken from his Guru Mahārāja’s Anubhāṣya commentary. differences in the parts of the body first obscured, in the place, time, causes of obscuration, etc., are contradicting Vedic scriptures, such as Saṁhitās, Vedas and Purāṇas9.” rāhuḥ ku-bhā-maṇḍala-gaḥ śaśāṅkaṁ śaśāṅka-gaś chādayatīna-bimbam tamo-mayaḥ śambhu-vara-pradānāt sarvāgamānām aviruddham etat Translation: “All discrepancy, however, between the assertions above referred to and the sacred scriptures may be reconciled by understanding that it is the dark Rāhu which entering the earth's shadow obscures the moon, and which again entering the moon (in a solar eclipse) obscures the sun by the power conferred upon it by the benediction of Lord Brahmā.” This understanding of the double nature of Rāhu (as a node and as a shadow) was also accepted by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda. Here is a verse describing Lord Caitanya’s appearance during the lunar eclipse from Śrī Caitanya-bhāgavata (Ādi 2.209) and his Gauḍīya-bhāṣya commentary to it, where he mentions these two aspects of Rāhu: rāhu-kavale indu, parakāśa nāma-sindu, kali-mardana bāje bāṇā pahuṅ bhela parakāśa, bhuvana catur-daśa, jaya jaya paḍila ghoṣaṇā Translation: “When the moon was covered by Rāhu, when the ocean of the holy names was manifest, when Kali was subdued, and when the flag of victory was raised—at that time the Supreme Lord appeared and the fourteen worlds filled with the sound of “Jaya! Jaya!”” Commentary (only the part relevant to this discussion): rāhu—sūryera bhramaṇapatha o candrera bhramaṇapatha yekhāne sampāta haiyāche, tāhāra ekasthānake ‘rāhu’ o aparasthānake ‘ketu’ bale | ravi patha o candrera bhramaṇavartma chayarāśi vā 180° aṁśa pṛthvīstha draṣṭāra nikaṭa vyavahita haile pṛthvīcchāyā candropari patita haya | ei pṛthvīcchāyākei ‘rāhu’ bale | sūryoparāge pṛthvīstha draṣṭāra nikaṭa candradvārā ravi vyavahita haile uhāke ‘rāhu’ vā ‘ketu’grāsa bale | candragrahaṇeo pṛthvīcchāyāi ‘rāhu’ nāme kathita | ‘kabala’-śabde kabalita | Translation of the commentary: “Regarding Rāhu — when the orbits of the sun and the moon intersect then one of these points is called Rāhu and another is called Ketu. When the orbit of the sun and the orbit of the moon are separated by six signs or 180° and are covered from the observer on the earth, then the earth’ shadow falls on the moon. This shadow of the earth is called “Rāhu”. During a solar eclipse when the sun is covered by the moon from the observer on earth, it is said to be “swallowed by Rāhu or Ketu”. Similarly, during a lunar eclipse the shadow of the earth is called known by the name “Rāhu”. Kabala means kabalita, “swallowed” or “seized”.” Thus Rahu is simultaneously a planet 10,000 yojanas below the sun in the Puranic astronomy and the node 9 Bhāskara’s commentators mention that he refers here to such scholars as Varāha Mihira (6 th cent. CE). In his Bṛhat-saṁhitā (chapter 5) Varāha rejected the idea that eclipses are caused by Rāhu, insisting that they are only caused by the earth’s shadow (lunar) or by the moon (solar). Varāha Mihira’s opinion was also criticized by Bhāskara’s predecessor Brahmagupta in his Brāhma-sphuṭa-siddhānta (21.37-39) as being “against the customs of people and foreign to the Vedas, smṛtis and saṁhitās.” Along with Varāha Mihira, Brahmagupta also mentions other Indian astronomers, such as Śrīṣeṇa (late 6th cent.), Āryabhaṭa (476–550) and Viṣṇucandra (c. 550–600) as supporting the same idea. or shadow in the Siddhantic astronomy. In this way the Purāṇic statements can be reconciled with the observable reality that we live in. Similarly, we have to find a way to reconcile the Bhāgavatam’s statements regarding the distance to the moon and our observable reality, supported by the Siddhāntic astronomy. Sūrya-siddhānta as an important but undiscovered evidence As a very important supporting factor we have Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s endorsement of Sūrya-siddhānta and Ārya-siddhānta (both of which he translated and published either as separate books or serially in his astronomical magazine Jyotirvid). Śrīla Prabhupāda also acknowledged the authority of Sūrya-siddhānta: “These calculations are given in the authentic astronomy book known as the Sūrya-siddhānta. An annotated Bengali translation of this book was compiled by the great professor of astronomy and mathematics Bimal Prasād Datta, later known as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī, who was our merciful spiritual master. He was honored with the title Siddhānta Sarasvatī for translating the Sūryasiddhānta, and the title Gosvāmī Mahārāja was added when he accepted sannyāsa, the renounced order of life.” (Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi 3.8, purport) And here Śrīla Prabhupāda encourages his disciples to find the Sūrya-siddhānta (translated by his Guru Mahārāja) and study it: “Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also going to be very critical. Prabhupāda: Which one? Svarūpa Dāmodara: This moon is farther away than the sun. That brings a whole new concept that poses some problem. Prabhupāda: Eh? Svarūpa Dāmodara: In speaking [at] colleges and universities. The other day when you spoke there, we were not speaking about astronomy, you were speaking of the origin of life, and these people, outsiders, they already had the concept to raise up that question. So without any connection they brought up. So the question was, "Whatever you present is very nice, fine, but what about the moon? Do you believe that the moon is farther away than the sun?" Prabhupāda: But they have already...? Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, they already studied, they are ready to ask those things, and they say, "Just give me an answer, yes or no." Prabhupāda: They asked you? They asked you? Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Prabhupāda: So what did you answer? Svarūpa Dāmodara: We said yes, but our explanation was much [indistinct] in the sense that we said you have to study this more carefully, but we tried to remark the concept that now we are conditioned to believe certain things. Prabhupāda: Now, how they heard that we are believing in this way? Svarūpa Dāmodara: From Bhāgavatam. Prabhupāda: Oh. Svarūpa Dāmodara: From Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And sometimes devotees go around the colleges and sometimes they say, "What you are doing is all wrong, the moon is far away." So I think this is spread all over. Prabhupāda: But that is a fact. Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we had one explanation saying that now, the way we percept knowledge, though we understand things, there is also a conditioning behind it. So actually this is a fact, but in Mathematics, if we change the axiom, then we have a whole new understanding, it's almost completely upside down, but still we can interpret the result. It is just like a simple jumble, while Nils Bohr, studying the structure of the atom. Now he had a mathematical equation to fit the phenomena of this atom, and actually you can perfectly describe this phenomena by this equation, but, now, at morning times, this quantum mechanics, it turns out whatever he did was completely wrong, but it can be described completely, perfectly well as his model, as is our present understanding. But now his theories [indistinct], he could explain things on his own, but still it's completely wrong. So similarly… Prabhupāda: They are right. They may present the wrong thing, but still they are right. Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Prabhupāda: That is their proposition? Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is possible, but that's why we're claiming that. They agree that because not only there is several facts in science, that one should be [indistinct] this is true, then suddenly by some new discoveries came out all wrong. Prabhupāda: Yes. Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we are discussing about our limitations of our so-called knowledge-finding technique. So we said, "One has to be a little open-minded and discuss these things…" Prabhupāda: What does they say about that disi, astrologic kalokyam [Hindi] ? Svarūpa Dāmodara: [Hindi] Prabhupāda: [Hindi] Svarūpa Dāmodara: And in this connection we actually wanted to also study Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhupāda's… Prabhupāda: Sūrya-siddhānta. Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. Prabhupāda: Yes. But where is that book? Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pradyumna told me that it's available in Bengali, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Prabhupāda: If it is available, get it. [indistinct] He was one of the authorities about sun movements. Svarūpa Dāmodara: I heard that it will be very… Prabhupāda: [indistinct] He got this Sūrya-siddhānta, Siddhānta Sarasvatī. He was very expert astrologer. Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we were thinking that there must be some more information there. Prabhupāda: [indistinct] There are [in] Calcutta many... Some of them still, living or dead I do not know. But in India, in Benares you'll find many astrologers. You said in your book that the sun is the nearest planet? Svarūpa Dāmodara: No…” (Room Conversation, July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.) Below is the essence of Sūrya-siddhānta’s statements about the distance to the moon. There the orbit of the moon is given as 324,000 yojanas (verse 12.85). The same number is stated in the Siddhānta-śiromaṇi (Graha-gaṇita-adhyāya 4.4)10. If, for the sake of simplicity, we consider that the moon’s orbit is circular (not elliptical), then the distance from the earth to the moon (i.e. the radius of the moon’s orbit) will be 324,000÷2π ≈ 51,566 yojanas. If we take a yojana as 13 km then the distance will be 51,566 x 13 = 670,360 km. However, if we take a yojana as 8 km (as is sometimes suggested), then the distance is 412,528 km which is very close to the modern measurement (384,000 km). In the Siddhānta-śiromaṇi (12.3) the distance to the moon from the center of the earth is directly stated to be the same 51,566 yojanas as above. So, at least theoretically, the discussion above could have arrived at a mediated conclusion that at least according to the Sūrya-siddhānta and other astronomical works the moon is not so far away (but maybe leaving aside the attempts of reconciliation with the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam). However, unfortunately it seems no one had ever found the Sūrya-siddhānta and presented these statements to Śrīla Prabhupāda. 10 See Śrīla Bhaktisiddānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s Jyotirvid, Śrāvan 1824 [July–August 1902], p.46. From the following conversation we also see that Śrīla Prabhupāda did not discourage his disciples in their effort to research this issue more deeply, but, on the contrary, he encouraged them to do so. Another important point is that Śrīla Prabhupāda did not say that he had a deep knowledge of astronomy or that he even knew or read the Sūrya-siddhānta. He instead encouraged his disciples to consult learned astronomers regarding the model of the planetarium based on the Bhāgavatam’s cosmology: “Prabhupāda: It requires a little mathematical astronomy knowledge to translate this very difficult subject in the Sanskrit language. I have done as far as possible, but when we make our planetarium, we have to consult the Indian astronomers or mathematicians. In this way, we have to correct if there is [indistinct]. Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa wouldn’t let me find any. Prabhupāda: Huh? Harikeśa: Every time I tried, it was a failure. I couldn’t find anybody who knew.” (Conversation at Bhaktivedanta Manor, July 24, 1976, London). We can also see from these statements of Śrīla Prabhupāda that he was ready to correct his presentation of the Vedic astronomy, if needed, after consulting such expert astronomers. In a similar conversation Śrīla Prabhupāda did not hesitate to say that he himself did not fully understand all the mysterious descriptions of the Bhāgavatam’s geography and astronomy: “Yaśodānandana: "…Just north of Ilāvṛta-varṣa and going further northward, one after another, are three mountains, namely Nīla Mountain, Śveta Mountain and Śṛṅgavān Mountain. These mark the borders of the three varṣas, namely Ramyaka, Hiraṇmaya and Kuru, and separate them from one another. The width of these mountains is 2000…" Prabhupāda: And it was not possible for me to digest. [laughs] Somebody else helped me to... I am a layman. I do not know. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How did you write it? Prabhupāda: That somebody, Kṛṣṇa, helped me. That He manufactured. Yaśodānandana: And these mountains, they extend to the beaches. "It is considered, according to the Bhāga…" Prabhupāda: When I was writing, I was praying Kṛṣṇa that "I do not actually accommodate all this knowledge. Please help me." Yes. That's all right.” (Room conversation, Vrindavan, June 18, 1977). Of course, such statements from a great devotee of the Lord may be considered a sign of his humility. At the same time a great ācārya should not necessarily be literally an all-knowing living being, perfect in every possible respect. Such understanding is rather sentimental and is not supported by Śrīla Prabhupāda himself: “Jayādvaita: ...they know everything and they're perfect in everything. But sometimes, from our material viewpoint, we see some discrepancies. Just like we think that… Prabhupāda: Because material viewpoint. The viewpoint is wrong; therefore you find discrepancies. Jayādvaita: So we should think that we have the defect. Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya is explained, bhakti-śaṁsanāt. One who's preaching the cult of devotional service, he's ācārya. Then why should you find any discrepancy? Jayādvaita: Just, we see... For instance, sometimes the ācārya may seem to forget something or not to know something, so from our point of view, if someone has forgotten, that is… Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Then… Jayādvaita: ...an imperfection. Prabhupāda: That is not the... Then you do not understand. Ācārya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is ācārya. Jayādvaita: And that is the perfection. Prabhupāda: That is the perfection. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jayādvaita: So we have a misunderstanding about what perfection is? Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfection is here, how he is preaching bhakti cult. That's all.” (Morning walk, April 8, 1975, Māyāpura). So to be an ācārya one does not need to know the Sūrya-siddhānta or astronomy or even understand how exactly Jambudvīpa is made of different varṣas. One needs to know Kṛṣṇa and how to preach His message as it is and also have great faith in Him and in the śāstra. But when there is a contradiction between the Bhāgavatam and the modern atheistic science, a great devotee of the Lord will naturally stick to the Bhāgavatam and will not be obliged to blindly accept the verdict of the modern science, in which there is no place for God. Or, in other words, it is better to have blind faith in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam than in the modern science. Therefore Śrīla Prabuhpāda used this opportunity to promote the Bhāgavatam’s descriptions against the blind faith in the modern science. In another conversation quoted below, Śrīla Prabhupāsa also didn’t claim that he knew all distances by heart: “[in car] Prabhupāda: They have not gone to the moon planet. Paramahaṁsa: [laughs] Really? Prabhupāda: Yes. It is far, far away. Their calculation is wrong. They are going to a wrong planet. Paramahaṁsa: It must be the Rahu planet. Prabhupāda: Yes, or something else. Not moon planet. Paramahaṁsa: How many… Prabhupāda: It is above the sun planet. Paramahaṁsa: Moon planet is further? Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramahaṁsa: Oh. Because they say that the moon planet is the closest planet to the earth. That is their calculation. And they say that it orbits around the earth, and then that the earth orbits the sun. Prabhupāda: All wrong. What is the... According to them, what is the distance of sun planet? Paramahaṁsa: Sun planet is 93,000,000 miles. Gaṇeśa: They say the moon planet is only 250,000 miles. Prabhupāda: It is wrong thing. Paramahaṁsa: Is their calculation for the distance of the sun wrong also? Prabhupāda: Yes11. Paramahaṁsa: 93,000,000? It says in the Bhāgavatam exactly what the distance? Prabhupāda: The whole universe, diameter, is pañcaśat-koṭi-yojana. One yojana equal to eight miles, and one koti is ten miles, er, ten million. So pañcaśata, fifty into ten million into eight. Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. So it's fifty crores yojana. Fifty crores yojanas? Prabhupāda: Yes, fifty crore yojanas, pañcaśat. So one yojana equal to eight miles, one crore equal to ten million. Paramahaṁsa: That's eighty million. Prabhupāda: Hmm? Paramahaṁsa: Eighty million times fifty. Prabhupāda: Yes. 11 See endnote ii. Paramahaṁsa: Means 400,000,000 Śrutakīrti: Hmm. More than that. Four billion. Paramahaṁsa: Four thousand million, which is four billion? Śrutakīrti: Four billion miles. Paramahaṁsa: Four billion miles is the diameter. Prabhupāda: Is the diameter. Paramahaṁsa: You gave that in The Teachings of Lord Caitanya also. Prabhupāda: Yes. And the sun is in the middle. Paramahaṁsa: So two billion miles from the edge of the universe. Prabhupāda: Yes. And they say? 93,000,000. Śrutakīrti: That's from the earth to the sun. That's not from the sun to the edge. That's from earth to the sun. Amogha: Is the earth near the edge of the universe? Prabhupāda: No. There are many other planets down. Seven planetary system. Paramahaṁsa: The higher planetary systems are closest to the sun? And then… Prabhupāda: No, sun is the middle. This is circumference. Sun is the middle. And the whole diameter is fifty lakhs and... What is...? And moon is above, 200,000 yojanas above the sun12. Paramahaṁsa: Ah. 200,000 yojanas. That means [calculates] 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Prabhupāda: Above the sun. How they'll go? [laughter] They are going to the wrong... Bluffing only. I am repeatedly saying, they have never gone, simply bluff. How it is that they brought some dust? So brilliant, it is blazing, full. There is fire blazing. [on walk] Paramahaṁsa: They say that they've measured the moon and that it's very small compared to the earth, very tiny. Prabhupāda: All wrong. Paramahaṁsa: If it's a longer distance than the sun but still it appears so big in the sky, it must be a very large planet. Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly Venus and others, they are also above. Paramahaṁsa: Oh, above the sun.” (Morning Walk, May 12, 1975, Perth). It is clear from this conversation that Śrīla Prabhupāda didn’t actually bother too much with these distances and numbers, apparently he simply wanted to oppose the atheistic science for its denial of God and he found the way to challenge it with the information from the Bhāgavatam which he, as a vaiṣṇava, obviously preferred. Weekdays and planets Śrīla Prabhupāda would often use the example with the order of weekdays to question the order of planets accepted in the modern astronomy. Here is one example from his books: “Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, an expert astrologer, explains the word nakṣatra-tārādyāḥ. The word nakṣatra means "the stars," the word tāra in this context refers to the planets, and ādyāḥ means "the first one specifically mentioned." Among the planets, the first is Sūrya, the sun, not the moon. Therefore, according to the Vedic version, the modern astronomer's proposition that the moon is nearest to the earth should not be accepted13. The chronological order in which people all over the world refer to the days of the week—Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday—corresponds 12 See endnote ii. 13 The Siddhānta astronomy also maintains that the moon is the nearest planet to the earth (cf. Sūrya-siddhānta 12.85-89). to the Vedic order of the planets and thus circumstantiates the Vedic version 14. Apart from this, when the Lord appeared the planets and stars became situated very auspiciously, according to astrological calculations, to celebrate the birth of the Lord.” ( Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.18.5 purport). This example with weekdays is a reasonable question to ask and it is not so easy to answer for a person with no training in Jyotiṣa. It appears that there were no people around Śrīla Prabhupada who knew Jyotiṣa quite well to give a satisfactory answer. Therefore he would go on using it, seeing that no one among his disciples or people who he would speak to could answer this challenge. Śrīla Prabhupāda himself said in many conversations that no one could answer this simple question. Here are some examples: “Prabhupāda: ...has answered my question why Monday first, er, yes, Sunday first and Saturday last? All over the world, in India also, Sunday, er, Monday first... No. Sunday first, Monday second. Ask your scientist friend why this arrangement, Sunday first, Monday second, Saturday last? [break]” (Morning Walk, May 25, 1976, Honolulu). “Prabhupāda: Yes. From the... That question I was discussing the other day. In the common sense, question, that all over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in this way Saturday last. So why these arrangement, Sunday first and Monday second? And nobody could reply it. But as a layman I can conclude that sun planet is first and the moon planet is next. So if you cannot go to the sun planet, which is ninety-three million miles away, how you can go to the moon planet within four days? Nobody could answer me. Can you answer?… Prabhupāda: Of course, we do not go into the details of this. My question is that why Sunday first and Monday second? Nobody can apli..., replies.” (Room Conversation with Reporter, June 4, 1976, Los Angeles). “Prabhupāda: ...why Sunday first and Monday second, all over the world? Satsvarūpa: Sun, moon. Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] [on walk] Sun planet, moon planet, Mars, Jupiter, like this; last, Saturn. So if this is systematic, then this calculation also means sun planet first. Why Sunday first? Hari-śauri: You've defeated everyone, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Prabhupāda: Any one of these boys can answer? Why Sunday first?Ambarīṣa Mahārāja? Ambarīṣa: Why Sunday first? Because the sun is closer to the earth. [laughs] Prabhupāda: That is my version. Ambarīṣa: Yes, I agree with that. Prabhupāda: But why do they say the moon planet first? Ambarīṣa: Because their senses are imperfect. Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara also, he also not replied satisfactory. (Morning Walk, June 15, 1976, Detroit). Earlier Śrīla Prabhupāda had asked his leading scientist disciple about this in a letter and apparently did not receive any satisfactory answer: “…In the words of Bhagavad-gita, they are described as mudhah, mayaya-apahrta jnana. Besides that, can 14 There are two orders of the planets that can be called “Vedic” — the one given in the Purāṇas (including Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam) and the order given in the Siddhāntas (including Sūrya-siddhānta and the works of medieval Indian astronomers). The latter is essentially the well-known geocentric system. The order of the days of the week, however, does not seem to fully correspond to either of them. These orders are as follows: Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn (planets corresponding to the days of the week) Sun, Moon, Venus, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn (Purāṇic order, cf. Bhāgavatam, Canto Five, chapter 22) Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn (Siddhāntic order, cf. Sūrya-siddhānta 12.85-89). you tell me what is the scientific opinion of the days being consecutively Sunday then Monday, then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and last Saturday? What is the history of this set-up? (from Sunday to Saturday). According to our sastra, sun is first, then moon, then Venus, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, like that. In other words, from Bhāgavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun15. If that is true, then is it possible to go to the moon planet by persons who can never imagine to go the distance to the sun planet? Under the circumstances, if we say that they have never gone to the moon planet, is it exaggeration? You are a scientist, I hope you will reply these 2 points scientifically. If the moon planet is actually far away from the sun planet, how they can go there and publish in the paper that the moon planet is the nearest planet.” (Letter to Svarupa Damodara, Mauritius, 24 October, 1975). According to the astrological concept of horā every hour of the day has its own ruler (horeśa) who succeed each other in the reverse order from the Siddhāntic (or geocentric) order of planets (i.e. from slowest to fastest – from Saturn to the Moon). In other words, the hour ruled by Saturn is followed by the hour ruled by Jupiter, then by Mars, then by the Sun, then by Venus, then by Mercury, then by the Moon and then again by Saturn and so on. The ruler of the hour in which the sun rises gives its name to the day of the week. Because there are 24 horās (hours) and seven rulers of hours there is a remainder of 3 after a whole day and a night passes. So the next day at sunrise the ruler of the hour will not be the next in the sequence but the one three places down in the reverse geocentric order. Here is an example: 1st hour (sunrise) – Saturn (thus making the day Saturday) 2nd hour – Jupiter 3rd hour – Mars 4th hour – Sun 5th hour – Venus 6th hour – Mercury 7th hour – Moon 8th hour – Saturn … 22nd hour – Saturn 23rd hour – Jupiter 24th hour – Mars 25th hour (1st hour of the next day) – Sun (thus the day is Sunday) and so on. This system is concisely summarized in the Sūrya-siddhānta (12.78): mandād adhaḥ krameṇa syuś caturthā divasādhipāḥ Translation: “Starting from Saturn downwards the fourth planet is called the ruler of the day.”16 Conclusion In the absence of a person expert in Jyotiṣa or Indian astronomy who could explain the questions and challenges that Śrīla Prabhupāda would raise, and with no access to the Sūrya-siddhānta (especially with Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura’s translation) and in the all-pervasive presence of the modern atheistic scientific ideas it makes every sense and is very natural that Śrīla Prabhupāda, being a vaiṣṇava, 15 See endnote ii. 16 Similar concise statements may also be found in other famous astrological works like Āryabhaṭīya (3.16) (which was translated by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura in his magazine Jyotirvid, 1901-1902) and Brahmagupta’s Brāhma-sphuṭasiddhānta (21.13). chose to uphold the Bhāgavatam’s version of the distance to the moon and not that of the atheistic science. Moreover, Śrīla Prabhupāda used these descriptions from the Bhāgavatam as the opportunity to slacken his disciples’ faith in the atheistic (and often even demoniac) science as well as the modern civilization based on it. Here are some of the obvious reasons why such science and civilization were opposed and harshly criticized by Śrīla Prabhupāda: - practically complete denial of God and disregard for His laws; - propagating the Big Bang theory and the “creation by chance”; - propagating the Darwin theory of the evolution of humans from apes; - teaching that life came from matter and promising to create life in test-tubes in the near future; - promoting unrestrained sex life (including extramarital), as well as contraceptives and abortions (sometimes euphemistically called “removal of an unwanted tissue”) as its concomitant result; - maintaining thousands of slaughterhouses for the mass slaughter of animals on a daily basis; - creating weapons of mass destruction and waging wars with little or no substantial reason (maintaining the “dog mentality” in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s words); - encouraging people to waste the valuable human form of life in useless activities; - encouraging people to thoughtlessly indulge in sense gratification, etc17 ii. Additionally, a historical factor may have also played some role in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s conviction that “they never went to the moon”18. The Cold War was at its height in the sixties and seventies and the Space Race, started in 1955, was an important part of it. Each side in the Cold War competitions (like the space race, moon race, missile race, nuclear arms race, etc.) evidently used propaganda (“bluffing” in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s words) to further their agendas and to seem ahead of the rivals. 17 Śrīla Prabhupāda summarized his attitude towards the moon landing controversy and the modern science in his letter to a disciple, who apparently developed some doubts in the Bhāgavatam version: “I do not know how these doubts have come upon you. Why bother about all these things? They are not very important. Everything is explained in Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, why you are still asking? If you believe whatever the material so-called scientists are saying, that is your business, but I do not believe any of their so-called observations in outer space by the blunt material senses can be true without any doubt. So why you doubt Vedas and not scientists. I cannot even see into the next room, how I can see anything very surely so many millions of miles distant? But if someone who has been there tells me, then I can know everything about that place. So we must have to take the authority of experienced persons to get the truth, and what experience our so-called scientists have got? Can they deliver even an ant from the miserable conditions of this spot-life, from birth, death, disease, and old age? No. They have spent simply millions of dollars to make a show of their so-called learning and the result is a handful of dust, that's all. So we are not very much impressed by them, neither we take their version as perfect. They will say that millions of years ago the human beings were primitive hunters. But if we see Vedic language, we can understand that their thought and language and intelligence was not that of primitive men, no. If you are looking for some excuse to doubt, then maya will always provide you. So this or that you may find out something flaw if you want. But Krsna says surrender unto Me and I will give you all protection, perfect knowledge of everything. You should not go to modern scientists for perfect knowledge. They cannot supply that. Krsna will supply you. Of course, sometimes there is allegorical reference in the Vedas, just like the body is called the city of nine gates, like that, so we may sometimes misunderstand due to our imperfect reading. Even it is true that they have landed on the moon, so what is their accomplishment? If I come to Earth planet and land in the Sahara desert, then I say, "Oh, this planet is a barren desert, no one lives here?" The moon may be like that or like this, so what does that help to our Krsna consciousness movement. We have nothing to do with moon planet or this planet and that planet in Krsna consciousness. We simply want to serve to Krsna, that's all. Do not be disturbed by these things. Simply go on with your work in positive mood. That will be best for you and for other also. After all intelligence to understand Krsna is not within the range of your material senses. You cannot make any experiments and calculations and expect to find Krsna. But if somehow or other you are fortunate enough to find out a pure devotee of the Lord, then you get opportunity to him, and as you surrender Krsna gives you the intelligence by which you may come to him, that is sure. No other process will give us any intelligence to understand things as they are, except Krsna consciousness.” (Letter to Tirthanga dasa, n.d.). 18 “It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the moon. Neither they'll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it.” (Room conversation July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.). Appendix A question of siddhānta This difference between the Purāṇic and Siddhāntic astronomy, both endorsed by our ācāryas, may lead to a question of the authority of śāstric statements about the material reality, such as geographical or astronomical sizes and distances, which are not supported by our observation and experience. Are they also siddhānta? Or siddhānta is only restricted to transcendental philosophical truths and thus only such siddhānta statements must be taken according to their direct meaning? If geographical and astronomical dimensions and distances of objects within the material universe are not siddhānta, then perhaps we are not obliged to take the direct meaning? These are important questions, but unfortunately no previous ācārya has given direct answers to themiii. We can safely say that these geographical or astronomical descriptions are not direct statements of siddhānta in the sense that they do not directly pertain to the categories of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Siddhānta is that the Supreme Lord possesses three energies — internal, external and marginal, and the living entities, who belong to the last category, are conditioned by māyā in the material world and are, therefore, suffering or enjoying in different species of life on different planets or levels of consciousness and standards of life. The Fifth Canto, which predominantly describes sthanam or various positions of the living entities in the material world, also provides such geographical or astronomical information regarding these different planets with different standards of life, including the distances and sizes19. Thus these descriptions are a contextual application of siddhānta, which may therefore be relative to these various levels of consciousness. Direct statements of siddhānta (falling into categories of sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana) are absolute, objective and applicable to all. Contextual application of siddhānta may be relative, subjective and may not correspond to our observable reality but may correspond to the reality as perceived by the living beings, who are in another type of reality or level of consciousness20. Just as the time is perceived differently by Lord Brahmā and by an ant or even human beings on earth, similarly, 19 Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught Rūpa Gosvāmi and Sanatāna Gosvāmi all intricacies of the Gauḍīya-siddhānta as recorded in chapters 19-24 of the Madhya-līlā of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. However, He made no mention of astronomical or geographic details regarding distances, sizes, orders, etc., and and only cursorily mentioned the existence of seven dvīpas and nine varṣas in one sentence (Madhya 20.218). 20 Śrīla Prabhupāda’s respected Godbrother Śrī Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Mahārāja offered a similar explanation in one of his conversations: “ISKCON Devotee: When our Guru Mahārāja was translating Bhāgavata there was some conservation with yourself regarding the sun and moon. The moon is closer or the sun is closer. Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. I showed one direction that is not in consideration of physical distance but I think it will be better, the distance of influence. Influence. Just as in political, Russia is closer to India than America than Pakistan. So how? The nearness calculation of the friendly relations of influence. So I like say we may take in that way. Not in physical distance. Suns influence over the earth is first, next that of moon, next that of Mars. In this way perhaps we may proceed. I got some hint in that direction. If we are challenged we may take this course. But my ultimate basis of argument is that it is subjective. It is like a hypnotizer. That the Lord showed Śukadeva at that time, it is described like that. He might have showed that sort to anyone and everyone. And sometimes, one in particular, it is in his hands. Subjective control. Not the objective will control us to see a thing. But the subject as he likes can make a show like a hypnotizer. That is my view. So everything can be explained. The higher seer is controlling us to see anything. The man here what he sees another man wont see. Subjective control. Like that of a hypnotizer. Viśvarūpa-darśana in Bhagavad-gītā. What is it? Arjuna you see this I am so and so. And Arjuna is seeing that. Its not that the object is controlling the experience of the subject. But the super-subject is controlling the experience of the lower subject. That is my understanding. Everything is controlled by the higher. The root is above, not from the fossil. The fossil will control me to see him always, no such base law, such a mean law I am ready to accept. Devotee: In case of argument comes how do we describe that the moon is nearer? Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Not in the physical measurement of distance, but influence. In the line of influence the sun is nearer to the Earth. And in the line of influence the moon is next.” (Conversation with devotees, November 2, 1981). the space may be perceived differently by living beings on different planets or levels of consciousness. Thus even these statements of geography and astronomy in the Bhāgavatam that are seemingly in conflict with our observable reality should not be discarded as fabulous. i At times Śrīla Prabhupāda, in his usual attitude denouncing atheistic science, did apparently presume that airplane is actually flying on a much higher altitude, but the modern scientists simply cannot measure the height of these mountains accurately: “There are so many mountains, even on this planet earth. We do not think that the measurements of all of them have actually been calculated. While passing over the mountainous region from Mexico to Caracas, we actually saw so many mountains that we doubt whether their height, length and breadth have been properly measured.” (ŚrīmadBhāgavatam 5.16.10p). “Bhakti-prema: ...square. Thirty-four thousand yojanas in [indistinct], in this. Kimpuruṣa-varṣa. This is Kimpuruṣa-varṣa. That is between Himalaya and Hemakūṭa Mountain. And again Hari-varṣa is between Hemakūṭa Mountain and Niṣadha Mountain. And this Ramyaka... Prabhupāda: Where is geographical description of this? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't even know they exist. Prabhupāda: Little description of the Himalayas. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all. Prabhupāda: That is also not sufficient. In Europe, when we go over the mountain, huge mountainous tract, who knows about it? We are passing just like on a roof, aeroplane. You have seen? Huge. They have no information what is there. And Switzerland... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Switzerland. Prabhupāda: ...I have seen mountain goat. Where it has gone, nobody knows. Still. Bhakti-prema: In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is described more or less. Himalaya Mountain is 80,000 miles high and 16,000 miles wide. So each of these mountains are 16,000 miles wide and 80,000 miles high. And that means it is start from Badrinath up to Siberia. That is 60,000 miles, er, 16,000. Prabhupāda: But height, they have no... Bhakti-prema: Height, 80,000 miles high. Prabhupāda: Eighty thousand. Bhakti-prema: We cannot measure. Aeroplane cannot... … Yaśodānandana: Then it prescribes in verse number nine that "South of Ilāvṛta-varṣa extending from east to west are the great..., three great mountains named Niṣadha Parvata, Hemakūṭa Parvata and Himalaya. Each of them is 10,000 yojanas high, 80,000 miles high." That means... The scientists have understood that the Himalayas are three and a half miles high, but we say... How much the Himalayas? Twenty-eight... Five and a half miles high. We say it's 80,000 miles high. The Bhāgavatam says. Prabhupāda: They could not measure the whole thing. That is not possible.” (Room conversation, Vrindavan, June 18, 1977). This, of course, should be taken as a general distrust of the atheistic science which we will attempt to explain in the end. Otherwise, no one can say that a pilot of an airplane flying over the Himalayas, having all flight data in front of him and having all “control” over his machine, does not realize that his jet actually flies on the altitude above 10,000 yojanas (130,000 km) and yet in the end he successfully lands the jet from that hight exactly in time calculated in advance, having used the calculated amount of fuel. ii It seems that Śrīla Prabhupāda would revenge for this atheistic propaganda by using the distance to the sun as given by the modern scientists (which is actually much bigger than the distance given in the Bhāgavatam) and add to it the double distance from the sun to the moon taken from the Bhāgavatam. Here are some examples: From the purport to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.10.38: “The sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth, and from the ŚrīmadBhāgavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Therefore the distance between the earth and the moon would be about 95,000,000 miles. So if a space capsule were traveling at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, how could it reach the moon in four days? At that speed, going to the moon would take at least seven months. That a space capsule on a moon excursion has reached the moon in four days is therefore impossible." From the Quest for Enlightenment: “The sun is 93 million miles away from us, but still we are feeling scorching heat—120 degrees, 135 degrees.” From the lecture on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.1.1-4, 20.05.1975 in Melbourne: “You are trying to go to the moon planet bogusly. I'll say bogusly because you could not go there. The moon planet is far away from the sun planet. So it is not possible to go there by the so-called jets plane. No. It is far, far away. It is sixteen hundred thousand miles away from the sun. The modern scientist calculation is ninety-three million miles, the sun is situated, and above that, sixteen hundred thousand miles up, there is moon planet. So by the Vedic calculation it is not possible to go there by the method we are attempting. That is not possible.” Morning Walk, October 9, 1975, Durban: Prabhupāda: And the śāstra definitely gives the distance of the moon from the sun planet—1,600,000 miles. But actually according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.22.8 the moon is only 100,000 yojanas (800,000 miles) away from the rays of the sun, still Śrīla Prabhupāda in his conversations and lectures would almost always say that it is 1,600,000 miles (twice as much). And here Śrīla Prabhupāda directly says that we accept the modern estimation of the distance to the sun: “Hari-śauri: We did that calculation on the basis of 95,000,000 miles, which is about 2,000,000 miles from what the distance we get from the Bhāgavatam, combined with 93,000,000 miles… Prabhupāda: But they accept [sic:] ninety-three miles. Sun is [sic:] ninety-three miles away. Hari-śauri: But we don't say that. Prabhupāda: No, no. We say also. Hari-śauri: What? 93,000,000? Prabhupāda: Yes. Hari-śauri: Oh.” (Morning Walk, May 25, 1976, Honolulu) From the room conversation with a reporter, June 4, 1976, Los Angeles: “Prabhupāda: Calculation, they have calculation that sun planet is ninety-three million miles from. That is, they have accepted. I also accept it. I say the moon planet is 1,600,000 miles still further. So you cannot go to the sun planet, how can go to the moon planet?Yadubara: According to the Bhāgavatam, the sun is also 93,000,000 miles away from the earth? Prabhupāda: That is we shall see later on. It is about. The whole diameter is 4 billions. And sun is situated almost in the middle. It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the moon. Neither they'll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it.” Actually, in his purport to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.23.9 Śrīla Prabhupāda writes (quoting Visvanatha Cakravarti who in turn quotes from the Viṣṇu Purāṇa) that the earth is only 100,000 yojanas (800,000 miles) away from the sun. This is more than 100 times less than 93,000,000 miles that Śrīla Prabhupāda would always give while discussing going to the moon. From this it seems that Śrīla Prabhupāda would use the bigger number from the modern science just to emphasize his statement that the astronauts could not go to the moon. If we take the measurements from the Bhāgavatam as linear we can say that the moon is 200,000 yojanas (1,600,000 miles) away from the earth, which is way lesser (60 times less) than the number of 95,000,000 miles that Śrīla Prabhupāda would usually give. And it is only 6.7 times bigger than the distance to the moon as accepted in the modern science (239,000 miles). According to the modern science this distance is travellable for manned spaceships, while 95,000,000 miles is not. iii We have only two rather indefinite hints from our recent ācāryas regarding this controversy between the Bhāgavatam version and our material reality, quoted below. There are also two interestingly mysterious points in this regard—no one among traditional commentators compares the Bhāgavatam descriptions of the universe with the siddhāntic astronomy, and even those vaiṣṇavas who were expert in the siddhāntic astronomy like Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Thākura apparently never addressed this issue. Although he at least once made a statement directly related to our discussion—in his last address to his disciples, on the morning of 18 December 1936, thirteen days before his departure from this world. His disciple Sundarānanda Vidyāvinoda took notes and later published them in the Gauḍīya (17.471–73; 11 February 1939). Here is an excerpt from that address, a translation of which was included in Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Vaibhava (Vol.3, pp.67-72) under a title "Deceitful Disciples". I highlighted the statements directly related to the topic: "Our Śrī Rūpa said: sajātīyāśaye snigdhe sādhau saṅgaḥ svato vare śrīmad-bhāgavatārthānām āsvādo rasikaiḥ saha One should associate with devotees who are more advanced than oneself and endowed with a similar type of affection for the Lord (sajātīya-āśaya), and should taste the meaning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the association of pure devotees. (Brs 1.2.90) I never indulge in jana-saṅga. Vijātīya people surrounded my guru-pāda-padma on all four sides. Fools thought, “He is keeping association with vijātīya people. He appreciates them; he always stays with them.» In reality, he did exactly the opposite. As much as he paid external honor to somebody, to that degree he deceived him; for we can judge anything by the fruit it bears. Persons desirous to enjoy sense objects did not actually associate with my guru-pādapadma, nor did they ever get his darśana. If we come to study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to learn geography and astronomy, then we prove to be anya-jātīya-āśaya. In the same way, some come to see a sadhu or guru to study his scholarship, appearance, skills, and so on. They want to collect dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa from a sadhu or guru. If this is my case then I am anyajātīya-āśaya. Servants of Śrī Rūpa do not associate with me, for I am vijātīya-āśaya, but deceive me by giving me objects of this world: astv evam aṅga bhagavān bhajatāṁ mukundo muktiṁ dadāti karhicit sma na bhakti-yogam To many who worship Him, Bhagavān Mukunda (Kṛṣṇa) gives liberation, yet very rarely does He bestow direct loving service. (SB 5.6.18) Because the Bhāgavatam does not know geography and astronomy, we will not neglect it. The anya-jātīya-āśaya say, “From Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam I will take only spiritual advice, and will do everything else taking the advice of the public who are averse to Kṛṣṇa.” Those not established in the ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyasya varjanam verse of Śrī Rūpa, in accepting only things favorable to bhakti and rejecting everything unfavorable, are not surrendered to guru-pādapadma." [end of quote] Later in the same discourse he also said (in English): “So we must not consider that Rūpa Gosvāmī was a fool because he had no chance to learn modern science, astronomy, or geography.” All these statements were not elaborated upon. They may be seen as a "tongue-in-cheek" acknowledgment of the Bhāgavatam's so called "defects" in the material field of knowledge, but given the fact that Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura was a great astronomer in his youth, he might have spoken from the point of view that corresponds to our perception or science and seemingly contradicts the Bhāgavatam’s version. We also have some statements from Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, who spoke about related topics in his famous "Bhāgavatam speech" in 1869, which was reprinted many times by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Saravatī Ṭhākura: "In the common-place books of the Hindu religion in which the Raja and Tama Gunas have been described as the ways of religion, we have descriptions of a local heaven and a local hell; the Heaven as beautiful as anything on earth and the Hell a ghastly as any picture of evil. Besides this Heaven we have many more places where good souls are sent up in the way of promotion! There are 84 divisions of the Hell itself, some more dreadful than the one Milton has described in his Paradise Lost. These are certainly poetical and were originally created by the rulers of the country in order to check evil deed of the ignorant people, who are not able to understand the conclusions of philosophy. The religion of the Bhagavat is free from such a poetry. Indeed, in some of the chapters we meet with descriptions of these hells and heavens, and accounts of curious tales, but we have been warned somewhere in the book, not to accept them as real facts, but as inventions to overawe the wicked and to improve the simple and the ignorant. The Bhagavat certainly tells us of a state of reward and punishment in the future according to deeds in our present situation. All poetic inventions, besides this spiritual fact, have been described as statements borrowed from other works in the way of preservation of old traditions in the book which superseded them and put an end to the necessity of their storage."